A week after the publication in the Platform Ranking in Poland, we publish a short interview with Karol Muszyński and Zuzanna Kowalik. They, as part of the Fairwork project, and in cooperation with many other people, prepared this Ranking.
Thank you for finding time for us. Tell us, when was your report created? In what period?
We collected interviews with people providing work from October 2023 to June 2024. We wrote the report during the 2024 summer holidays, and then internal work was carried out within the project (the process of assessing platforms by experts from the Fairwork network, reviews, etc.). In the meantime, the process of exchanging information with platforms was underway.
And why did you consider Uber and UberEats to be separate platforms? After all, Bolt also provides various services (deliveries and transport).
For two reasons. Firstly, Uber and Uber Eats have separate consumer applications – the aim of Fairwork is, among other things, to inform consumers about how services are provided to them. Secondly, although the applications work with the same app from the perspective of a person providing work, there are slightly different requirements for people providing work on these platforms (which is related to, for example, Lex Uber, the requirement to have a driving license, car insurance, etc.). In the case of Bolt, we spoke only to people working in passenger transport, and in the case of Uber, both people working in passenger transport (“regular” Uber) and food delivery (Uber Eats).
We admit that the results surprised us a bit. Pyszne.pl received almost all possible points. But what do the ratings of four platforms (Bolt, Freenow, Uber, UberEats) presented as a line mean?
This means that in the case of these platforms, we found no evidence that they meet any of our fair work criteria.
In the report, you clearly indicate that 1/5 people work without any contract: neither an employment contract nor a contract of mandate, not even a lease agreement. How is this possible? What is not working here?
Many fleet partners simply settle accounts with drivers and couriers “under the table”. Such a situation can occur even in a situation where theoretically verification of drivers’ identity is mandatory, for example by sharing accounts (so-called account sharing).
Well, yes, but we are more interested in the question: since this is publicly available knowledge, why does the State apparatus not intervene? Of course, individual offices declare: but it is legal. Because, for example, lease agreements are legal. But they are stretching the law to the point of absurdity. So maybe the State allows it because there is a lack of political will? Or maybe because Suppliers are such a marginalized social group that they do not have the power to force the State to intervene? What do you think about this?
This is a fairly typical story of the Polish labor market, where certain phenomena on the border of the law are slowly becoming normalized, until they are finally recognized as legal. This is a specifically “Polish” form of actual liberalization of employment regulations, which is not so much through formal changes, but through allowing actions that actually bend the law. A similar phenomenon occurred a dozen or so years ago with regard to contracts for services. At first, their use was controversial – PIP and the courts still somehow reacted. Year after year, these practices became increasingly accepted, until finally completely allowed – today, contracts for services are in fact a full-fledged alternative to employment contracts. Today, a similar thing is happening in platform work with regard to lease agreements replacing contracts for services. There are many reasons – lack of political will to solve the problem, loopholes in the law that allow for looking for such loopholes, weak supervisory authorities. Of course, such allowing violations of the law is much easier when we are talking about a group of employees with a relatively weak position (younger employees, many migrants). In the report, you use the terms “fair pay”, “fair conditions”, “fairness in management”. What do you mean by the word “fair”? Platforms, despite treating couriers and drivers as independent contractors, are areas of quite an “uneven” game. We understand fairness as the use by platforms of mechanisms that equalize the significant difference in position between the courier/driver and the platform. The assumption of the Fairwork criteria is that the principles of fair work should be implemented regardless of the legal status of the person performing the work.
That is, in your opinion, is it possible to build such an Employer-Employee relationship in work managed by an Algorithm that the latter has some room to maneuver? That, for example, they can negotiate wages or a contract?
“Algorithms” are very often a convenient explanation for hiding the processes of ordinary management and decision-making by employers who justify themselves with new technologies. There is no real reason why employees logged into the platform and available to work were not paid, for example, the minimum hourly rate or provided with full protection under health and safety regulations.
And have you researched how much people earn and how many hours they work?
We asked people about their earnings and working hours, but our study is constructed in such a way that we are not able to calculate, for example, average earnings or average working hours. This is due to the fact that we spoke to 6-10 respondents on each platform, and the aim of our study was to understand the working standards prevailing within a given platform, not to calculate average earnings or average working hours (which would require a much larger sample and a different type of study).
Well, yes, with such a small group, it is difficult to maintain representativeness. We ask about this because in our opinion, the introduction of pro-employee legal solutions alone will not change much. Take a look: Glovo currently offers a rate of PLN 6 per hour (see the Statement of the Employee Initiative of Couriers on negotiations with Glovo), Uber offers a rate of around PLN 12 per hour (the latest entry dostawca-jedzenia.pl). And it seems to us that no one notices this. This dramatically low level of wages. Or maybe we are wrong? What do you think about it?
The role of politicians and regulators is to ensure that platforms comply with minimum standards, such as at least a minimum hourly rate, which is much higher than the rates you are describing. In addition to the minimum standards, there are also standards expected by couriers and drivers. And this is where the issue of self-organization of people working on platforms comes into play, related to the possibility of unionization, which is currently difficult due to the fleet partner system. Putting pressure on platforms by couriers and drivers would be easier if platforms had to enter into contracts directly with them.
Thank you again for your time, and for preparing the Report
You can find the entire report here