ALL THIS IS HAPPENING GLOBALLY

Today we present an interview with Katarzyna Duda, author of the book “Uberyzacja. On the Working Conditions of Couriers.” This is the first publication in Poland entirely devoted to the working conditions of people working as Delivery Partners for Platforms.

You can buy the book itself, published by Krytyka Polityczna here, and you can find a free excerpt here.

We’ve been planning to write this book for several years. This stemmed from the fact that during the pandemic,

media started to see and talk about so-called “invisible workers.” That is, workers who couldn’t work remotely at the time, yet whose work was absolutely essential to the proper functioning of society. Back then, people talked about nurses, cleaners, but also about Suppliers.

So we sat down with people from Krytyka Polityczna and came up with the idea of ​​writing a book about this work. And from among several proposals, we chose this particular professional group. Then, I think it took a year of discussions, then the signing of the contract, and the technical details. But the most important trigger was the pandemic and the awareness that there are professions that simply can’t protect themselves from these various threats so comfortably at home, and that someone else is simply taking on these dangers and taking care of other people.

Five years have passed since then, and thanks to you, we have the first book about people working as suppliers for platforms. Meanwhile, it’s been about 16 years since platforms began operating in Poland. The media constantly repeats the cliché that the platform economy (or gig economy) is a new sector of the economy. So, for people just entering the job market, it’s an obvious element of that market. At the same time, you describe a situation where, in the freezing cold of winter, you did unpaid work for an international multinational corporation. That can’t even be called exploitation; to me, it’s pure theft. Considering all this, tell us why you think this is possible? Why is such a pathology allowed to exist?

Well, it’s interesting to look at it this way. Because really, if you look at it from my perspective, 16 years is the exact period I’ve been in the job market. I entered the job market in 2010 and worked while still studying, so for me, it’s a long time.

See, in 2019, Gazeta Wyborcza published a famous report, “I worked illegally at Uber Eats.” It already described many pathological practices, including hiring through lease agreements. And at least from that point on, when the entire society already knew about it. It seems that then, reports also started flowing to the National Labor Inspectorate. Even the Ombudsman wrote to the National Labor Inspectorate. So, there’s already some dialogue between these institutions about this. And from what I remember, the conclusion from this whole dialogue was: we’re helpless, because this is something new for the state administration. And then there was this excuse that they didn’t know how to go about it, because these weren’t, these weren’t traditional jobs. And this has been going on until 2026. In other words, there simply hasn’t been a political force in this industry that has prioritized this problem…

Excuse me, I have to interrupt you, but we agree on one thing: there was no political pressure on these institutions to do anything about it. But if we look at it from a global perspective, this exploitation is happening all over the world, regardless of whether the governments in a given country are right-wing or left-wing, pro-capitalist or pro-social. Whatever we call them, they all allow it. And in every country the Platforms enter, they do whatever they want.

I think the key is something that has rarely come up in my interviews, and I’d like it to start resonating much more strongly. I believe it’s the connection between immigration and platform work. Platforms rely on labor migration. Migration is simply a massive business. When we talk about platform work, we often forget how many entities, interests, and companies there are that are profiting from all this. Starting with intermediaries who, for example, recruit workers in India. Then we have the entire business of housing these people in Poland. Providing housing, renting equipment, bikes, and cars. The scale of profits from this is enormous. So we have a large group of people who benefit from this, and finally, we have the platforms themselves and their platform work.

The second important thing is that everything is happening globally. The operating model of platforms like Uber, the guiding principle of their operation, is that they will not adapt to the laws of any country. Whether in the United States or later in Europe, the country will adapt to their operating model over time. This was the case in the United States, where ride-hailing was initially banned, but there were also battles with regulators, entire cities, and unions. But Uber, in particular, always assumed that sooner or later the government would adapt.

Now, finally, one last question. The book premieres today, but have you already received any initial reactions from people who have read it? Or perhaps you have some information that someone in the government has already read it? Maybe someone from the media?

For now, only journalists have read it. So, this is the only feedback I have. I think everything is still ahead of us. Maybe more time is needed?